Ah, Sexist Beatdown: it just gets sexier by the week, people! This week it got particularly sexy, after I read a sexy article by Sexist Beatdown co-conspirator and The Sexist blogger Amanda Hess in which she sexily explained why the phrase "sex-positive feminist" is so annoying, and I, although a sexy sex-positive feminist for lo these many years now, found that I agreed!
So, this week: the tragic tale of my time as the worst sex educator ever employed by the Nameless Sex-Positive Sex Toy Shop That Would Not Want Me To Represent Its Views, surprising things you can find up your butt, and how performance art pieces entitled "No, Seriously, Look Up In There, It's Crazy: The Socio-Political Impact of My Vagina" have benefited our society today.
ILLUSTRATION: Can you guess which of these items I got to lovingly clean and/or caress with a damp cloth every day, for money? HINT: Which ones didn't I, Jesus.
AMANDA: ok. so. sex sex sex sex feminism sex
SADY: Indeed! I have, at times - many, many, MANY times - identified as a "sex-positive" feminist. Yet your article demonstrated for me some of the reasons why that can be annoying even to my very own ears!
AMANDA: yeah, and the issue is actually a lot more interesting than the form it was presented in my post ("rant")
SADY: Well, I feel like "sex-positive" is kind of a necessary construction, or was, at a certain point, when people were arguing with each other over whether porn, or heterosexual intercourse, was inherently oppressive to the ladies because of The Sexism. I even feel like right now we need to talk about ladies having sex drives and bodies that can enjoy sex and how that is not just necessarily some thing women inexplicably do to gratify man boners!
AMANDA: incidentally, i identify as a man boner gratifying feminist. i definitely agree with you, and i think the history of "sex positivity" and "feminist" is part of the reason it sort of nonsexually rubs me the wrong way. i just think at this point it's so obvious that feminists are not sex-negative. but i am a young female feminist-identifying person, so maybe it's not as obvious to, say, feminist-hating middle aged men.
SADY: RIGHT? They probably think you are out luring the man boners into wood chippers or something. OR marrying dudes so you can then divorce them, which I hear is quite popular. OR, you are a big old slutty slut slut boner slut. ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE TRUE, in the mind of the Middle-Aged-Feminist-Fearing-Dude.
AMANDA: yeah. and specifically with this conference, which i've never been to but i hear is really interesting and respected and everything, i want to be careful not to criticize a speaker selection because she was a porn star or used to do performance art shows where she put flashlights up her vagina or whatever. because that would be sex-negative and unfair, but at the same time, nothing about that stuff really interests me as a feminist and i wonder if we have to continue to insist on feminism being "cool" and not "prude" in our own feminist circles too in order to benefit the image that middle-aged wanker dudes have.
SADY: well, yeah, if there is one thing several decades of "I, Too, Have A Vagina, And Sex With It: A Performance Art Piece" has accomplished, it's to make women feel that having sex and sex drives is totally normal. has it convinced DUDES that women having sex and sex drives is totally normal? I am not sure! But it really seems that if you identify as a feminist these days it's assumed that you're also OK with sex. It's assumed if you're a young woman you do! It's not even really a "feminist" concept any more! So why do we need to keep emphasizing it, if not to try to make ourselves less threatening?
AMANDA: i mean, there is nothing wrong with feminist conferences going into these sort of related ideas that are maybe less serious and that a lot of the participants will probably be interested in. i just think that a lot of times it gets into this territory that's like, sex is great, all kinds of sex is great, this particular thing i do with my boobs and a swing or something is great, and at some point, i kind of just want to get back to Afghanistan or whatever
SADY: Yeah. I mean, I want to say a thing in defense of the SPF, and that is that it's interesting to talk about. When I was working in Ye Olde Sex-Positive Sex Toy Shoppe (not mentioned by name because I was possibly the worst employee they ever had, could not keep a till, whatever) I learned that it is FREAKING AMAZING what most people don't know about their bodies. How many nerve endings do you have up your butt? Is it roughly comparable to the number of ones you have in your cooter? I required employment at the store to tell me this!
AMANDA: yeah---i've found since writing the post, that talking about sex-positivity is actually super interesting! and i'm sex positive, i guess. i just usually associate talking with "sex positivity" as something different from both "sex issues" and "sexism," and it sometimes involves trying to sell a group of college girls dildos. but that is my own bias.
SADY: Selling them dildos OF FREEDOM, my friend! But yeah, "sex-positive" gets caught in this thing where we're talking about sex is great, the kind of sex YOU have is great, the kind of sex I have is great, sex sex yay - and as far as that goes, what with its being tied to LGBTQ stuff and not hating people because of how they get off, good. But can we also talk about the social stuff involved? And how to actually get actual social rights for folks? Like, yeah, some dude is eventually going to think I'm a slut because I've had sex, or a bitch because I haven't had sex with HIM. Granted. However, if I live in a world where sexual harassment and rape are not culturally or legally tolerated, he poses far less of a threat!
AMANDA: yeah, i mean the sex part of sex positivity i am not interested in. like, whatever you do when you have sex i could care less about. it's when those behaviors become stigmatized or litigated or whatever when i become interested. gah, i think i am a sex positive feminist. i dont know what i am anymore
SADY: ha ha, COME TO THE OTHER SIDE.
AMANDA: are there rope restraints over there
SADY: WE ARE DEMONSTRATING ROPE BONDAGE.
AMANDA: AHH
So, this week: the tragic tale of my time as the worst sex educator ever employed by the Nameless Sex-Positive Sex Toy Shop That Would Not Want Me To Represent Its Views, surprising things you can find up your butt, and how performance art pieces entitled "No, Seriously, Look Up In There, It's Crazy: The Socio-Political Impact of My Vagina" have benefited our society today.
ILLUSTRATION: Can you guess which of these items I got to lovingly clean and/or caress with a damp cloth every day, for money? HINT: Which ones didn't I, Jesus.AMANDA: ok. so. sex sex sex sex feminism sex
SADY: Indeed! I have, at times - many, many, MANY times - identified as a "sex-positive" feminist. Yet your article demonstrated for me some of the reasons why that can be annoying even to my very own ears!
AMANDA: yeah, and the issue is actually a lot more interesting than the form it was presented in my post ("rant")
SADY: Well, I feel like "sex-positive" is kind of a necessary construction, or was, at a certain point, when people were arguing with each other over whether porn, or heterosexual intercourse, was inherently oppressive to the ladies because of The Sexism. I even feel like right now we need to talk about ladies having sex drives and bodies that can enjoy sex and how that is not just necessarily some thing women inexplicably do to gratify man boners!
AMANDA: incidentally, i identify as a man boner gratifying feminist. i definitely agree with you, and i think the history of "sex positivity" and "feminist" is part of the reason it sort of nonsexually rubs me the wrong way. i just think at this point it's so obvious that feminists are not sex-negative. but i am a young female feminist-identifying person, so maybe it's not as obvious to, say, feminist-hating middle aged men.
SADY: RIGHT? They probably think you are out luring the man boners into wood chippers or something. OR marrying dudes so you can then divorce them, which I hear is quite popular. OR, you are a big old slutty slut slut boner slut. ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE TRUE, in the mind of the Middle-Aged-Feminist-Fearing-Dude.
AMANDA: yeah. and specifically with this conference, which i've never been to but i hear is really interesting and respected and everything, i want to be careful not to criticize a speaker selection because she was a porn star or used to do performance art shows where she put flashlights up her vagina or whatever. because that would be sex-negative and unfair, but at the same time, nothing about that stuff really interests me as a feminist and i wonder if we have to continue to insist on feminism being "cool" and not "prude" in our own feminist circles too in order to benefit the image that middle-aged wanker dudes have.
SADY: well, yeah, if there is one thing several decades of "I, Too, Have A Vagina, And Sex With It: A Performance Art Piece" has accomplished, it's to make women feel that having sex and sex drives is totally normal. has it convinced DUDES that women having sex and sex drives is totally normal? I am not sure! But it really seems that if you identify as a feminist these days it's assumed that you're also OK with sex. It's assumed if you're a young woman you do! It's not even really a "feminist" concept any more! So why do we need to keep emphasizing it, if not to try to make ourselves less threatening?
AMANDA: i mean, there is nothing wrong with feminist conferences going into these sort of related ideas that are maybe less serious and that a lot of the participants will probably be interested in. i just think that a lot of times it gets into this territory that's like, sex is great, all kinds of sex is great, this particular thing i do with my boobs and a swing or something is great, and at some point, i kind of just want to get back to Afghanistan or whatever
SADY: Yeah. I mean, I want to say a thing in defense of the SPF, and that is that it's interesting to talk about. When I was working in Ye Olde Sex-Positive Sex Toy Shoppe (not mentioned by name because I was possibly the worst employee they ever had, could not keep a till, whatever) I learned that it is FREAKING AMAZING what most people don't know about their bodies. How many nerve endings do you have up your butt? Is it roughly comparable to the number of ones you have in your cooter? I required employment at the store to tell me this!
AMANDA: yeah---i've found since writing the post, that talking about sex-positivity is actually super interesting! and i'm sex positive, i guess. i just usually associate talking with "sex positivity" as something different from both "sex issues" and "sexism," and it sometimes involves trying to sell a group of college girls dildos. but that is my own bias.
SADY: Selling them dildos OF FREEDOM, my friend! But yeah, "sex-positive" gets caught in this thing where we're talking about sex is great, the kind of sex YOU have is great, the kind of sex I have is great, sex sex yay - and as far as that goes, what with its being tied to LGBTQ stuff and not hating people because of how they get off, good. But can we also talk about the social stuff involved? And how to actually get actual social rights for folks? Like, yeah, some dude is eventually going to think I'm a slut because I've had sex, or a bitch because I haven't had sex with HIM. Granted. However, if I live in a world where sexual harassment and rape are not culturally or legally tolerated, he poses far less of a threat!
AMANDA: yeah, i mean the sex part of sex positivity i am not interested in. like, whatever you do when you have sex i could care less about. it's when those behaviors become stigmatized or litigated or whatever when i become interested. gah, i think i am a sex positive feminist. i dont know what i am anymore
SADY: ha ha, COME TO THE OTHER SIDE.
AMANDA: are there rope restraints over there
SADY: WE ARE DEMONSTRATING ROPE BONDAGE.
AMANDA: AHH
Posts
Th thing about sex-positive feminism that makes me cranky is that it implies radical feminists are sex-negative, which is clearly not the case. Even my favorite lesbian separatists fuck each other, you know? I see the whole sex-positivity thing as an artificial rift, but more dangerous because it's so man-pleasing. Fauxgressive dudes can safely date feminists because they're still willing to do anal or whatevs. It's not really getting to the root of the problem, which is that women and girls are born into the sex class in the first place.
ReplyDeleteHave never seen your blog before, till Shakesville linked it, but already, I ask where have you been all my internet-reading life?? I have never been able to put my distaste for Apatow/Tarantino etc. into the right words. And now I don't have to, just have to link to you. THANK you.
ReplyDeleteAlso giggling over your description of the various flashlight/etc. performance art pieces. Thank you for that too.
@Kate: Yeah, I get what you're saying. I mean, I also get upset when I read radical feminist stuff that is like, "you know why women get involved in sexual relationships with dudes? Because they're DUMB and/or IN LOVE WITH THE PATRIARCHY," because I believe relationships between men and women can be places to challenge and transform sexist dynamics, and the fact that we're all stewed from Day 1 in sexist culture means that we'll all probably internalize sexist ideology REGARDLESS of what our sex lives are like or even which gender we are (although dudes, being privileged by it, can be understandably slower to pick up on it and/or do the work, and I'm not avoiding that reality). But the sex-positive stuff can be so irritatingly fluffy and eager to gloss over the ways in which our current idea of sex HAS been informed by misogyny that it irritates me also. I don't get along with anyone, I guess, is what I am saying! But no, I'm not saying that: I think that "sex-positive" and its origin in the Sex Wars, although important at a certain moment, now creates division where no division need be, and we seriously need to stop throwing feces at each other and look at the fact that (a) sex is great, and (b) there are a lot of things informing the current sexual & gender dynamics that aren't great at all, so (c) can we please just be each other's allies, because there's so much more important work to be done outside the Who Is The Best Feminist battles, pleasepleaseplease, let's not fight any more?
ReplyDelete@emjaybee: Awww. Thank you lady. I don't want to get all Let's Talk About Me here, but I seriously want to say that talking about sexism in pop culture is where I always get most self-conscious (because, whatever, it's where I've been criticized the most: lots of folks will be completely cool about rape being bad, but then get unaccountably defensive when you're like, "BTW, that graphic rape scene in that movie you like is also bad," because it means you're a Philistine who wants to End Free Speech or whatever - and when did I say I wanted to end free speech? You can still put a graphic rape scene in your movie about developmentally stunted man-children, it's just that I will then argue that your movie sucks and/or normalizes sexist bullshit) but the positive reactions to it have seriously been SO HEARTWARMING and have let me know I'm not doing all this in a void, so I guess my question is: where have YOU been? I missed you.
ReplyDeleteTotally agreed with you re: sex-positive feminism. Frustrating!
ReplyDeleteAlso totally agreed with emjaybee! I am so agreeable today! But yeah, it sucks feeling like a stick in the mud when you notice something fucked up and point it out and people make you feel like you are ruining their good time. Like when the director and/or editor of Casino Royale decided that the moment after a woman was almost raped and was screaming and struggling in terror would be an AWESOME time for a panty shot! And like, it was two seconds of the movie, which overall was a huge improvement as far as James fucking Bond goes. But it's still FUCKED UP!
But at the same time, I just want to have a good time! I don't WANT to be upset or angry! It's not my fault most entertainment makes me feel that way.
So what I am saying is you rock and keep on writing! For me, knowing I am not alone on this is enough to keep me from going bonkers. Usually.
I never want to be forced to clean a communal dildo :(
ReplyDelete